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통합규정 1.3 이용안내 인용"Pgr은 '명문화된 삭제규정'이 반드시 필요하지 않은 분을 환영합니다.법 없이도 사는 사람, 남에게 상처를 주지 않으면서 같이 이야기 나눌 수 있는 분이면 좋겠습니다."
07/01/07 11:29
0. Hitchhiker has started to be used as an official map of the 2006 Shinhan bank starleague season 3, starting by the game between sAviOr[gm] and Midas[gm]. Hitchhiker is made by a goal to be another strategic 2 starting point map, similar to Bifrost and BaekduDaegan, and this is the making notes for it. The target aim for this note is to give answers to some of your questions.
2인용 전략형 맵의 표현이 조금 어렵네요 ㄱ- 수정 가능하신 분 있으면 부탁드립니다.
07/01/07 12:09
#1 Starter
In fact, The Hitchhiker was first born one year ago. Preparing for Shin Han Star Leage for 05~06, we first adopt the concept of "neutral building". Seveal maps were designed with this concept, and The Hitchhiker was one of them. In a closer look, The Hitchhiker and The Pioneering Period are twins. They share the same theme, which is "the map with a main rush route in the center and two additional route connected to the side entrance of the main base". With the theme, The Hitchhiker for two players and The Naissance(the picture below, rough version of The Pioneering Period) for four players were designed. The Hitchhiker as is true for normal maps for two players has more strategic factor and The Naissance has more center fight power based factor. However, their basic theme share several similarities which is why I basically count them are twins. Second theme for designing The Hitchhiker was circulating(donut-shaped) battle-field based map. The serial failure of Mercury, Pelenor, Alchemist which have circulating battle-field was enough to realize the limitation of using circulating battle-field. At that time, "Rush Hours" was designed to overcome this difficulties. This map is designed for circulating at first, but center fight power based at the end, and is successful to enjoy the excitement only circulating map has. The Hitchhiker is the opposite. This map is designed for center fight at first, but circulating rush route have more important tactical value as time goes by, and dividing certain portion of force and occupying tactically important points are expected. Therefore, this map can be classified as some deviated circulating map.
07/01/07 12:19
#4 T vs Z
Before the seasons started, I expected the balance of the official maps. Since it is only the beginning of the season, it may not be accurate, but I expected the Terran versus Zerg balance to be 5:5 or a little better for the Terran side. [Press the Link] For terran players, Hitchhiker is a pleasant map. It is a map with two staring points, and is good to build structures outside, because there is an alternative way even though it turns out to be failure: Terran players can easily block the narrow valley. Also, the fact that Zerg’s expansion is not easy is another advantage to terrans. The reason Midas could win sAviOr was because he followed the basis of this map. Still, the zerg players have many cards to win the game. The three hatchey build – which is commonly used nowadays – gives zerg another mineral expansion, and this is same feature in “Acardia,” and the reason why zerg was having advantages. Also, the use of valley will be easier for zerg players to attack terran base with mutalisks and lurkers, which will be a burden for the terran to prepare for larger scale battles. The fact that there are many places to defend is another advantage to zerg: zerg players can have elimination cards as a last resort. If sAviOr did not fight with Midas’ main forces and attacked his main base, I think there could have been different results. [Summary] Terran’s Advantage: The valley is blocked by two structures. Gas expansions are hard to get. Zerg’s Advantage: Mineral expansion is easy, the terrain of the valley itself, three different entrances, possible for overload drops without upgrading its speed.
07/01/07 12:28
#5
Zerg vs Protoss is not easily predictable, because of the fact that there are so many different game styles; the balance depends on what strategy becomes the most used one, even though there aren’t that many games. For the Zerg players, this map is easy to fight against Protoss. The fact that the expansions are easy to hit means that the mobility of Zerg will be a privilege and the narrow valley gives the possibility of lurkers to stop Protoss from debouchments. Protoss users have advantages, too. The valley is defended by few cannons and structures, second expansion easy to expand after using double nexus strategy, and the use of corsair – reaver will be critical for Zerg because of long ways for hydralisk counter attacks. It gives Protoss users that it will be capable for them to play. [Summary] Zerg: Expansions easy to attack, lurkers can blockade Protoss from advancing, three entrances to the main base. Protoss: Narrow valley, easy to get second expansion, corsair – reaver easily used.
07/01/07 12:42
#6 T vs P
In fact, the most problem when it come to balance in Hitchhiker is P vs T. The defeat of Anytime[gm] has given Protoss users frustration and anger. If you search for “Hitchhiker” in certain communities, you will find out how much the sentiments are. There are basically two ways to set the balance. To make the balance 5:5 in all periods is one way, and the other way is to make early and middle periods a little better to one side, and late-mid and later periods of the game a little better to the other side. The former way is really hard. If it is not a map with reallyx2 simple design, it is hard to follow the former way, and that is why I also use the latter one. Hitchhikers T vs P is better for Terran players in the early and mid periods. However, when all the Neutral Structures are destroyed and Carrier is produced, it is suddenly good for the Protoss side. Therefore, the Protoss users should find a way to have stability until they can have high-tech units, and Terran players should give damages to Protoss so they cannot have such units. Cool[fOu] has shown this way of winning the game very well. The Protoss players are required to use shuttles or other ways to earn time. There are some ways to use the terrain, such as attacking Terran bases in the heel, which will give some time for the Protoss players. Having much expansions and giving up its own base can be another way. So, I find this map a little bit better for the Protoss and Terran finding some solutions to such plays. [Summary] Protoss’s Advantage: Structures can be built secretly and forwardly, using Carriers. Terrans’: Usage of terrain #7 Epilogue I guess this is all the story I can tell you that is related to making this map. The rest is the players’ job to fill in the rest of my story. I hope to have many exciting games in “Hitchhiker,” which will be used at least at Shinhan Bank season three, and if possible, until the first half of 2007. Thank you for reading, sincerely, Forgotten_.
07/01/07 15:37
SeeY 님// '몰래 ~~' 는 잘 모르겠지만, '전진 ~~'는 'proxy ~~' 를 주로 씁니다.
그리고 확장은 'exp(ansion)' 라고 하고, 앞마당은 특별히 'nat(ure)'라고 합니다.
07/01/07 11:37
#0
since the game of midas vs savior, Hitchhiker has been used as a official map of Shinhan Starleague S3 With an aim to inherit the form of 2player strategic map, such as Bifrost and Baekdudaegan, Hitchhiker was made and this is the making note of it, and also here we reveal the answer for your questions
07/01/08 00:38
다음 번 부터 번역할 때는 참고하겠습니다.
이번엔 모르는건 영어로 의역해버리는 바람에 다시 바꾸기도 애매하네요. ㅡㅡa. NeVeRDiEDrOnE 님, 루비띠아모 님, Anyname 님, 치카 님 감사합니다.
07/01/08 11:13
안녕하세요homy 입니다.
적극적으로 참여해주신 SeeY님,Qck mini님,변성수님께는 +5점을 드리겠습니다. ^^ 앞으로도 많은 성원 부탁 드립니다.
07/01/08 17:19
올렸습니다. 복수 번역이 있는 경우는 두 가지 모두를 올렸습니다.
하루나 이틀 정도 여러분들의 번역 검토를 거치고 나서, 영어 버전으로 새 글을 올리겠습니다. ㅇ_ㅇ//
07/01/08 18:55
#0
서문이 사실 제일 중요한데 이 부분은 한 분 밖에 안 계시나요? 저도 실력이 미천하지만 나름 번역해봤습니다. With the game of midas vs savior, Hitchhiker has been started to use as one of an official map in the Shinhan bank Starleague S3. I will now show the answer of what you have questioned and the making note of 'Hitchhiker' with the aim to inherit a desire of 2 player strategic map like series of Bifrost and Baekdudaegan.
07/01/07 11:43
#1
Actually Hitchhiker was made a year ago. A new feature called the "neutral structure" was presented while we were preparing for the 05/06 Shinhan Starleague, there were several maps made by that period and Hitchhiker was one of them Actually Hitchhiker and Gaechuksidae was a twin map by some means. "A map with central rush route and two additional rush route in each main base" 시간이 없어서 나가봐야겟네요 -_-;; 위에분이 잘 해주실거같습니다
07/01/08 19:14
#7 Epilogue
I think this is all story,I can tell you, which is related to making this map and the players' will let you know the rest of it's story. I hope that 'Hitchhiker' will lead many exciting games as the official map at least in Shinhan Bank S3, further more, until the first half of 2007. Thank you for your interesting. Sincerely, Forgotten_. 처음과 끝만 . ^^; 교정은 좀 많이 봐야하지 않을까 싶네요. 영어권에도 많이들 계시니...
07/01/08 19:15
SeeY 님// 그렇군요. 사실 번역도 또하나의 창작인데 너무 원문에 얽매이면 진짜 번역하기 힘들죠... T.T 의역도 잘해야 되는데 일단 다 번역하고 원본글 말고 번역글 읽으면서 어색한 부분을 다시 수정해야 할 듯 싶네요.
07/01/08 19:27
분수// 써주신건 의미가 완전히 달리지는 문장이 되버렷네요;;
"2인용 전략형맵의 계보를 잇기위해서 여러분의 질문에 대답하고 메이킹노트를 보여드리겟습니다" 라는 의미가 되버렷군요;; 문장의 구조를 완전히 다르게 쓰셔서 똑같을순 없습니다만 그래도 말이 되려면 'Hitchhiker' with the aim to inherit 이부분을 'Hitchhiker' which was made with an aim to inherit 으로 고치셔야 할듯하네요
07/01/08 19:30
제가 지금까지 여러분 들이 올려놓은 번역들을 모아 놓았습니다.
여러 개의 번역이 있는 경우 어느 쪽이 좋을 지 선택해 주시고, (안 그러면 제 맘대로..) 표현의 수정 등 어감에 맞는 교정 부탁드립니다. (초벌 번역이 있으니 아예 새로 번역 올리시는 건 이제 자제를;; 서로 너무 혼란 스럽지 않을까 싶습니다.) 수요일 정도에 영어 버전으로 완료 하도록 하겠습니다. ㅇ_ㅇ//
07/01/09 00:04
Making Note 보다는 Production Note of Hitchhiker 가 더 알맞은 표현입니다. (영화제작 등에 많이 쓰이죠.)
07/01/09 00:50
5번에 ZvsP에서 SeeY님이 누락하신 부분입니다. 저그의 유리한 점 제일 마지막 부분에요.
And the three entrances to the main base allow Zerg to invade the Protoss' double Nexus with Hydra from three Hatcheries.
07/01/09 01:43
0번은 Qck mini님, 1번은 SeeY님 번역이 더 좋아 보입니다.
#0 Starting from the game of midas vs savior, Hitchhiker has been used as an official map of Shinhan Starleague S3. Reavealed here are the production note of Hitchhiker, made with an aim to inherit the form of strategic maps for 2 players such as Bifrost and Baekddudaegan, and answers to your questions. #1 concept Actually, Hitchhiker is made a year ago. During the preparation for the 05-06 Shinhan Bank Starleague, a feature so called “Neutral Structure” was first introduced in a melee map. Hitchhiker was one of the maps made then. Hitchhiker and Pioneer Period are somewhat twin maps. “A map with a central rush route and two more rush routes connected to an another entrance” was the theme for‘Naissance(The picture below)’, the roughdraft for Pioneer Period with four startings, and Hitchhiker. Since Hitchhiker is a map with two startings, it has more strategic factors whereas Naissance is more for large scale combats. However, the basic theme of the two maps is very similar, therefore I find the two maps as a “twin.” Another basis of Hitchhiker was Circular style maps. Mercury, Pelenorr, and Alchemist turned out to be a failure, showing the limits of circular maps. The breakthrough of the limits was “Rush Hour.” The map tends to be circular in the early and middle stages, and center style in the late periods. This was partially a success, giving the fun that is unique to circular maps. Hitchhiker is the opposite. This map is center concentrated only in the early period of the game, and as the game proceeds, the importance of the circular battlefields in the outskirts increase. That leads to division of forces or occupation of important spots, shown only in the late stage of circular maps. Therefore, this map can be classified as a modification of circular maps. 두 분이 올려주신 내용을 조금 다듬어 봤는데 역시 개인적인 주관이라 잘 모르겠네요. 더 잘 하실 수 있는 분이 교정해 주셔도 괜찮을 듯합니다(쿨럭)
07/01/09 01:49
#7 Epilogue
This seems to be all I can say about Hitchhiker as a maker of this map. I will leave the rest of the story to the players. I hope for many exciting games in Hitchhiker, the official map for the third season of 2006, or for the first half of 2007, if used further. Thank you for reading. Sinerely, Forgotten_. 새로 올리지 말라고 하셨는데(...) 그래도 짧아서 올려봅니다;;;
07/01/09 01:59
제가 게을러서 그런지 모르지만, 번역을 달으실때 한글 원문과 같이 붙여주시길 부탁드립니다. 올라갔다 내려오는 게 힘드네요 -_-;;
그나저나 모두 대단하십니다. 특히 SeeY님의 정성이란..
07/01/07 11:46
#1 concept
Actually, Hitchhiker is a map made a year ago. Back than, a factor so called “Neutral Structure” has first appeared in a melee map, while preparing for the 05-06 Shinhan Bank Starleague. Hitchhiker and Pioneer Period(개척시대 맞나요?)are somewhat twin maps. “A map which has a central rush route and also two more rush routes connected to an another entrance,” was the theme of ‘Naissance,’ (The picture below) and Hitchhiker was based on two startings, while Pioneer Period were four. Since Hitchhiker was a map having two startings, it had more strategic factors, and Naissance was more of large scale combats, however, the basic theme is very similar, and I find the two maps as a “twin.” Another foundation of Hitchhiker was Circular style maps. Mercury or Pelenorr, and Alchemist maps were found out to be a failure, showing the limits of circular maps. The breakthrough of the limits was “Rush Hour.” The map tends to be circular in the early and middle stages, and center style map in the late periods. Eventually, it made a success, giving the fun that circular maps can only give. Hitchhiker is opposite of this. This a map is center concentrated in the early periods of the game, and as the game proceeds, the importance of the outskirts increase, which can show two players sending in different places, or in same places, which will result in fights for better formations. That is why this map can also be classified as a circular style map.
07/01/09 02:25
퍼플레인님 교정본이 매우 좋은것 같습니다.
#1 Concept의 마지막 문단을 고쳐봤는데요, 역시 보는 것과 하는건 완전히 틀리군요;; 어렵습니다. 쩝.. 그러한 한계를 극복하려고 나왔던 맵은, '러시아워'입니다. 이 맵은 초중반 순환형, 후반 센터형 맵 을 지향하며 순환형 맵만이 가질 수 있었던 재미의 일부를 느끼게 하는 데에 성공합니다. 히치하이커는 그 반대입니다. 이 맵은 초반에만 센터형 맵이며 중후반으로 넘어갈 수록 외곽의 순환 형 전장이 중요해지기 때문에, 순환형 맵의 후반에만 볼 수 있는 병력의 갈림이나 자리잡기 싸움이 나오게 됩니다. 따라서 이 맵은 어떻게 보면 순환형 맵의 변형으로 분류할 수도 있겠습니다. The breakthrough of the limits was Rush Hour. Rush Hour intends to be circulating through the outer side of the map in the earlier and middle stages, and center-conscentrated in the later periods. It partially succeeded, providing an unique type of fun of circular maps. Hitchhiker is the opposite. This map is center-concentrated only in the earlier period of the game, and as time goes by, the importance of the outer side increases. That leads to division of forces or occupation of important spots, shown only in the later stage of circular maps. Therefore, Hitchhiker can be classified as a modification of circular maps.
07/01/09 02:36
퍼플레인님의 번역 수정.
#7의 첫 문장에서, as a maker of this map -> as [the] maker of this map
07/01/09 03:37
시간이 없는 관계로 위에 첫 문단만 변역해 보겠습니다.
#0 전상욱 선수와 마재윤선수의 경기를 시작으로 히치하이커가 2006 신한은행 스타리그 시즌3의 공식맵 으로 쓰이기 시작했습니다. 비프로스트와 백두대간 시리즈의 뒤를 잇는 전략형 2인용맵의 계보를 이 어가는 것이 목표인 '히치하이커'의 제작노트, 그리고 여러 분들의 의문점을 풀어드릴 해답을 공개합 니다. #0 With the match between 전상욱 and 마재윤, the map "Hitchhiker" was officially used for the first time in SHINHAN STARLEAGUE SEASON 3. The aim in making "Hitchhiker" is to continue the trend of maps with two starting positions, such as "Bifrost" and "BaekDuDaeGan". This report will unveil the makings of the map and also answer some questions regarding the map.
07/01/09 03:43
한 번 번역이 완성되었기 때문에,
우선 새로운 번역 보다는 기존 번역의 수정을 부탁드립니다. 새로운 번역은 특별히 더 좋은 경우를 제외하고는 반영하지 않겠습니다. ㅇ_ㅇ/
07/01/09 04:16
#2 지형의 활용
이 맵을 지배하고 있는 전체적인 테마는 '센스'입니다. 경험에서 우러나오는 기계적인 손놀림으로 병력을 운영하는 선수 보다는 순간순간의 재치와 센스가 빛나는 선수가 승리하는 맵이 히치하이커가 추구하는 이상점입니다. 그렇기 때문에 지형 하나하나, 특히 중앙의 협곡 주변의 전투에서의 병력 운용은 승패를 가를 만큼 중요합니다. 여러분은 '삼국지'를 아시는지요. 당대의 최고의 지략가들인 제갈량과 사마의의 호로곡에서의 싸움이 나옵니다. 제갈량은 사마의가 이끄는 위군을 좁은 협곡으로 유인한 후 화계를 통해 몇 배나 되는 수의 위군을 궁지에 몰아넣는 데에 성공합니다. 이와 같이, 스타크래프트에서 역시 협곡로에서의 지형 활용은 보통의 언덕과는 비교도 안되게 큰 변수가 됩니다.(사실 정작 실제 역사에서, 호로곡에서의 위군은 뜻하지 않게 내린 소나기에 의해 간신히 위기를 모면합니다.) 이러한 협곡을 둘러싼 초중반의 싸움이 지나면, 중후반의 난전이 시작됩니다. 앞마당 이후에 가장 먹기 쉬운 멀티인 미네랄멀티의 배후언덕, 그리고 중립건물로 막혀 있는 섬멀티 등은 역시 견제에 불안한 구조이며 남은 멀티인 1시와 7시의 가스멀티는 지형적인 견제는 없지만 상대방에 가까운 멀티입니다. 그렇기 때문에 이 맵은, 최근에 나온 맵 중에서는 가장 멀티하기 쉽지 않은 맵 축에 드는 편입니다. 그 말은 현기증나는 대규모 물량전보다는 정신없는 난전이 유도된다는 이야기이며, 그에 따라 밸런스적인 불안 역시 내포하고 있다는 이야기가 됩니다. 그렇기 때문에 이 맵을 만들면서 가장 신경 쓴 것은 이러한 밸런스 불안을 어떤 식으로 해소하느냐에 있었습니다. #2 The Use of Terrains The main theme of this map is “Sense.” The idealistic goal of Hitchhiker is to let the witty and clever player win, rather than the one with automatic movements from experiences. That is why the use of terrains of this map, especially in the central canyon is crucial to the victory. There is a Chinese novel called “The Three Kingdoms.” based on ancient Chinese history. The novel illustrates the battle in the Hulu Gorge led by the two greatest strategists of the time, Zhuge Liang and Sima Yi. Zhuge Liang decoyed the Wei army to the narrow valley and drove them into a corner with fire attacks. Likewise, use of terrains in the narrow valley becomes a crucial factor to the game, far more than usual hills. (In the real history, the Wei army was saved by an unexpected shower.) After the earlier and middle stages of battles around the narrow valley, the dogfight starts. The rear hills of the mineral expansion, the easiest one to get, and the expansions isolated by neutral structures are unsafe from containing attacks. Other remaining expansions at 1 and 7 are free from attacks using terrain, but they are close to the opponent. Therefore, among the recent maps, Hitchhiker is the most difficult one to have the second and the third expansions. That means this map is intended for small confused fights instead of battles in a large scale, which also means implication of problems with balance. The key point of making this map was how to solve such problems. SeeY님의 번역을 조금 다듬어봤습니다. 잠이 안와서 이시간까지 이러고 있군요(...)
07/01/09 04:57
누가 쓰든 글에는 논조와 어체가 있기 마련입니다.
전체를 다 놓고 글을 읽어보신 분 계신가요? 이 글에는 논조도 어체도 없습니다. 작자가 의도하는 바가 안 나타납니다. 평가를 하자면 번역기를 돌린 것 보다 좀 나은 수준이네요. 장문의 글일수록 쓸 내용을 모두 염두에 두고 한 사람이 다 써내려가야 합니다. 아니면 한사람이 에디터를 도맡아 전체를 다시 다듬어야 합니다. 그렇지 않으면 릴레이 만화처럼 산만해집니다. '히치하이커 제작노트'라는 글은 제작자가 겪었던 갈등과 고뇌, 제작의도를 비롯한 글의 의도가 차분한 어조로 풀어져나가는 좋은 글입니다. 그러나 그 영문번역본은 Forgotten_님께 죄송할 생각이 들 정도로 처참하네요. 한국어와 영어를 모두 통달한 분이 지휘, 감독하지 않는 한 이 사업이 좋은 성과를 얻기는 힘들 것 같습니다. 비판을 하면서도 비참한 느낌이군요.
07/01/09 05:15
[S&F]-Lions71님
좋은 조언 감사합니다. 음, 우선 이곳에서 하려는 일이 "어조를 살린 제대로 된 글"의 전달인지 아니면 "내용의 전달"인지를 생각해 보아야 하겠습니다. 쉽게 결정내릴 문제는 아니군요. 이 게시판과 번역 작업의 총괄을 담당해 주실 분을 찾고 있습니다. 공지도 나왔구요. 하지만 그 분이 계신다고 해도 전담해서 마무리 에디팅을 하는 것은 꽤나 복잡한 작업이 되지 않나 싶습니다. 어느 정도의 한계는 인정하고, 좋은 방법을 찾아 글의 흐름과 맛을 살려보도록 고민해야 겠습니다.
07/01/09 10:50
어려운 문제지요.
위에서 이야기 했듯이 번역도 새로운 창착의 하나이니 번역하는 사람의 특성에 따라 글 내용도 달라지게 되니까요. Qck mini 님// with 의 의미가 ~을 위해서라고 해석이 되나요? ^^? 물론 전 그런 의미로 글을 쓴 건 아닙니다만 그렇게 해석이 된다면 문제가 크겠네요. 전 ~를 가진으로 생각하고 번역한 것입니다만... 기본적으로 위의 내용은 글쓴이가 전략적인 2인용맵의 목적을 가진 히치하이커의 제작노트 및 일반인이 궁금해하는 부분을 알려주겠다고 번역으 하는게 나아 보여서 말입니다. ^^
07/01/09 11:52
번역게시판의 취지를 생각해보면 원문에 일단 충실하고 논조나 어조는 다음 순위로 두는 것이 좋지 않을까 생각합니다. 여러 사람의 번역이 한꺼번에 반영되어 버리는 짜집기 번역이 실력있는 번역가가 한큐에 해결하는 것만큼은 아닐 수 있다는 윗분 말씀에는 동의합니다만, 첫술에 배부르기 보다는 차차 균형을 맞추어가는 방향이 개인적으로 좋아 보입니다. 둘다 한번에 잡을 수 있다면 그보다 더 좋을 수는 없겠지만요:D
번역이 된 결과물(최종 에디터본)을 원글 저자에게 보여주고 평가를 받는 것도 한 방법이 되지 않을까요? 의도한 바가 제대로 전달되었는지는 글을 쓴 사람이 제일 잘 알 터이니 말입니다. 덧: [S&F]-Lions71님// 격한 폄하는 자제해 주셨으면 좋겠습니다. 칭찬받자고 해본 일은 아닙니다만, 과히 유쾌하지는 않군요.
07/01/07 11:56
SeeY// 개척시대 영어로쓴거보니까 pioneer period 더군요
그리고 여러번 쓰신 factor 보단 feature가 더 어울려요,
07/01/09 12:51
[S&F]-Lions71 님// 어떠한 부분이 어떻게 그런지 말씀하시는 편이 낫지 않을까요?
저를 비롯해서 번역한 모두에게 "번역기를 돌린 것보다 조금 나은 수준"이라고 평가하셨는데, 첫째로, 실제로 번역을 하지 않으신 분이 그러한 말씀을 하셔서 당황스러우며, 둘째로, 그렇다면 어떠한 부분이 어떻게 그런지 상세하게 말씀해주시죠. 굉장히 기분 나쁘네요. 의도하신 바는 그게 아니겠으나.
07/01/09 13:14
[S&F]-Lions71님// 이걸 번역해서 무슨 영리적인 것을 얻으려고 하는것도 아니고 저를 포함한 회원분들 모두 자신들의 없는 시간 쪼개서 일을 해주신겁니다.
잘은 모르겟으나 이 게시판을 만든 취지가 분명히 완벽한 변역을 할수있는 분만 번역을 해주시길 바라고 만든건 아닐거 같습니다. 저희가 무슨 프로번역가가 아니고 운영진분들도 회원중에 혹시나 프로번역가가 있기를 바라면서 이 게시판을 열엇다고 보이지는 않구요 완전히 맞춤법이니 단어선택이니 엉망인것이라면 모르겟지만 제가보기에 지금 본문에 일단 채택된 글중에 그런글은 없다고 보여집니다.
07/01/09 17:11
위엣분들이 열심히 변역해주신 글들이 물론 문법상 완벽한 것은 아니지만 외국인들이 읽고 이해하지 못할만큼의 수준은 절대로 아닙니다.
내용을 전하는 뉴스인만큼 주 목적을 충분히 달성하는겁니다. 물론 글 자체도 조금 다듬어진다면 더욱 좋겠지만요.
07/01/09 17:14
안녕하세요 homy 입니다.
이제 걸음마를 하는 단계입니다. 물뿌려 주시고 비료도 좀 주시고 하면 잘 자라서 좋은 게시판이 되리라 생각합니다. 한걸음씩 천천히 가자구요. ^^
07/01/09 20:53
SeeY님// 너무 성내지 마세요~~ [S&F]-Lions71 님이 하신말은 SeeY 님의 해석이 '허접' 하다가 아니라 해석은 상관없으나 여러명이서 조금씩 조금씩 해석하니 전체적인 글의 모양새가 안좋다는 거겠죠. 한국어처럼 표현이 다양해서 분위기 전달이 쉽지 않은 글은 해석하기가 힘든것도 사실이죠. 이 글 원본이 굉장히 좋은 글이기 때문에(멥 제작자님의 심정이 다 드러나 있는...) 더 안타까운 것이고요. 그 글의 분위기가 여러명이 해석하니깐 살아나지 못해서 아쉬운 마음에 그렇게 말을 하신것 같네요.
뭐 아직 시작단계니까 많은 아이디어가 필요하다고 봅니다. 아차 그리고 번역에 힘쓰시는 분들 존경스럽습니다. 화이팅!!
07/01/09 23:56
항즐이님의 권고대로 약간 수정해보겠습니다.
#0 전상욱 선수와 마재윤선수의 경기를 시작으로 히치하이커가 2006 신한은행 스타리그 시즌3의 공식맵 으로 쓰이기 시작했습니다. 비프로스트와 백두대간 시리즈의 뒤를 잇는 전략형 2인용맵의 계보를 이 어가는 것이 목표인 '히치하이커'의 제작노트, 그리고 여러 분들의 의문점을 풀어드릴 해답을 공개합 니다. by Qck mini (2007-01-07 11:37:09) 원본) #0 since the game of midas vs savior, Hitchhiker has been used as a official map of Shinhan Starleague Season 3 With an aim to inherit the form of 2player strategic map, such as Bifrost and Baekdudaegan, Hitchhiker was made and this is the making note of it, and also here we reveal the answer for your questions 수정본) #0 The match between midas and savior commensed the use of Hitchhiker, as a new official map of Shinhan Starleague Season 3. Hitchhiker was developed with an aim to retain the inheritance of strategic 2-player maps, such as Bifrost and Baekdudaegan. We hereby present the developer's notes including some clues that might answer your questions.
07/01/10 00:54
SeeY님이 하신 #3 부분적으로 수정했습니다. 시간이 없어서 다른 부분은 손대지 못했습니다.
그렇기 때문에 이 맵에서의 중립건물은 대부분 공격적인 요소로 활용되게 됩니다. 두 번째는 몰래건물의 요소입니다. 이 맵을 처음 눈으로 한번 훑어보신 분들께서 많이 착각하시는 것 중 하나가 '이 맵은 몰래건물이 불가능한 맵이다'라는 것입니다. 하지만 그림에서 보시는 바와 같이 이 맵은 맵의 모든 지형이 전진건물 혹은 몰래건물의 요소로 쓰일 수가 있습니다. 자신의 본진에서 이어진 길을 따라 올라가서 시전하는 몰래 로보틱스 전략은 정찰의 염려가 없어 그 위력이 배가됩니다. 그리고 자기쪽의 입구를 막고 있는 건물을 파일런이나 서플라이를 이용해 뛰어넘어 몰래게이트 혹은 몰래팩토리 등을 시전하면 입구가 2개인 상대를 공략하는 상쾌한 상황을 만들어낼 수도 있습니다. Therefore the neutral structures in Hitchhiker are more of an offensive factor. Another feature is allowing hidden structures. If you just skim through Hitchhiker, you are likely to think that this map does not have space for such tricky plays. But as you can see in the picture below, every single terrain in the map can be used for proxy or hidden structures. Warping Robotics Facility in a remote area connected to the player's main base will not be easily patrolled by the opponent, therefore gives far more damages than normal. Hidden gateways or factories built past the neutral structures by warping pylons or building supply depots can result in a thrilling situation for the player; invasion upon the opponent with two entrances.
07/01/07 11:57
#2 The Use of Terrains
The main theme of this map is “Sense.” The best players for this map will be those who are capable of having clever and be quick-witted, not players who play by experiences of mechanical APMs. This is the idealistic goals for Hitchhiker. That is why the terrains of this map, especially the combats in central canyon are are important. There is a Chinese history based novel called “The Three Kingdoms.” In the novel, there are two greatest tacticians of the time, and they fight in a narrow valley. The narrowness of the canyon becomes so important, and so does Hitchhiker. It can bring great difference to the game, more than regular hill terrains. After the early and middle periods battles, mainly focused on the valley ends, the dogfight starts all over the place. The mineral exp, which is easy to expand, is easily attacked from its rear. Also, the places that are unable to move by ground units are also prone to attacks, and the gas expansions located in 1 and 7 is not easily attackable by terrains, but still short from each main bases. Therefore this map is not easy to have second and third expansions. Which means it will be more of dogfights all over the place, instead of fights with greater scales. In other words, there is some balance problems easily estimated. Due to such facts, I focused mostly on how to solve the balance problems.
07/01/10 13:13
[S&F]-Lions71님/ 사람말이 아다르고 어다른건데 표현이 참 어이없네요. 여러 분들이 자기 시간 쪼개가면서 힘들게 해 주시는데 거기다 대고 그런말 밖에 못하나요? 제발 글을 쓰기 전에 생각 한두번만 하고 올립시다. 제가 seey님이라면 다시는 협조 안 할거 같네요. seey님 기분 푸세요. 어디를 가나 저런 사람이 있기 마련입니다.
07/01/10 14:38
글쎄요, 일단은 [S&F]-Lions71님의 지적이 맞는것 같습니다.
여러 사람이 번역한 것이니만큼 전체적으로는 글의 흐름이나 문맥에 있어서 흐트러짐도 나타날 수 있고 단어나 문법도 통일성을 갖출 필요가 있으니까 한 사람의 에디터에게 전체 번역문을 다듬을 권한을 부여하는 것도 좋겠네요. 다만, editing작업의 특성상 이 부분은 조금 더 전문적인 지식과 경험을 갖춘 분이 맡아야 한다고 봅니다. (번역 게시판을 담당할 운영자분을 새로 뽑는다는데 그 분이 전체 에디팅을 맡으실지도 모르겠네요) [S&F]-Lions71님의 어투에 화를 내시는 분도 계시는데 다소간 논란의 여지가 될 표현도 있습니다만 적어도 번역문 자체의 평가에 있어서는 [S&F]-Lions71님의 의견에 동감합니다. (전체 문장을 다 읽어보니 이문열 편역의 삼국지를 읽다가 뜬금없이 정비석 번역판 삼국지로 건너뛰는 느낌이랄까요?) 추가 : 번역 게시판에 원본 글과 번역이 완료된 번역문을 따로 게제하자는 것도 제안하고 싶은 사항입니다.
07/01/10 14:47
뛰어서돌려차기 님//
대체로 공감합니다. 지적 자체에 발끈한 거기 보다는, [S&F]-Lions71님의 어투에 반발한 경향이 강해서요. "번역기를 돌린 것보다 조금 낫다"라는 식의 표현이나, "처참하다와 비참하다", 그리고 외국어쪽으로 얼마나 권위 있는 분인지는 모르겠으나 본인의 잣대로 "평가"라고 단정 짓는 어투가 너무 공격적이었죠. 그것이 기분 나빴고요. 산만하다거나, 문맥, 글의 흐름 등에 문제가 있다는 것은 동의합니다. 국문작도 그렇겠지만 영작은 특히 사람마다 스타일이 다르거든요. 그러기에 작가가 원하는 바를 제대로 전달하기 위해서는 시간과 노력, 그리고 전문성이 필요한데 세 가지 요소가 모두 가능한 그런 분이 있었으면 좋겠네요.
07/01/10 15:02
Production Note of 'Hitchhiker'
#0 The new map 'Hitchhiker' has started to show as an official map of Shinhan Bank Starleague 2006 Season 3, as first-used in the game of Midas vs. Savior. I planned for it to be designed for taking after series of Bifrost and Baekdudaegan, and for getting in the same family tree of 2-player-strategical type maps. So, here I'm going to show you my production note and the answers to your question marks. #1 The Main Theme As a matter of fact, Hitchhiker is 1-year-old. When I was preparing for Shinhan Bank Starleague Season 1, 'neutral building' feature in the melee map first appeared. It is one of those maps I made then. Hitchhiker and Pioneer Period were twins in a way based on the theme, "linking 1 rush route to the other 2 additional rush routes which can be connected to both entrances of the main base". To go with it, I made Hitchhiker for 2 players, Naissance for 4, which was the mother of Pioneer Period. (Photo below is the first draft.) Hitchhiker bearing 2-player-map character was more strategic, while Naissance bearing 4-player-map character was more for a power game. However, the main themes of those have a lot in common. So, I think it's OK to see them as twins. Hitchhiker was also affected by the other idea. It was that of circular--donut shaped--maps. Once I felt a tall wall in front of myself because of circular maps' serial failures with Mercury, Pelennor, Alchemist, you name it. 'Rush Hour' was born to go beyond the limit. The map was with an intention to make games flow circular at the opening-to-mid part, but center-focused at the latter part; and it was successful to show a part of the unique fun of what circular maps can do. Hitchhiker is opposed to that. The map would make games center-focused at the opening part only, but the outer donut-shaped areas would get more important as the games go on. Players could miss each other on the road or have positioning struggles which could happen just at the latter part in the Circular-map-games. So, this map would be categorized into a variation of Circular style in a way. #2 Terrain Using 'Sense' rules this map. Hitchhiker wants a quick and sparkling player of wits and senses at the moment more to win the game, than the other of the experienced mechanical way of using hands. It's the motto of the map, and that's why every single terrain feature and the troop management in the area around the center canyon are almost decisive. Do you know "Three Kingdoms", the old Chinese novel? There you can see the battle in the Horo Canyon between the two extremely capable strategists: Sima Yi of the Kingdom of Wei, Zhuge Liang of the Kingdom of Shu. Zhuge Liang lured Sima Yi's Wei Forces into the narrow canyon to burn and corner them--more than double in size. Likewise, in Starcraft, terrain using around the canyon areas is a more major component than which around the normal hills. (According to history, Wei Forces in the Horo Canyon managed to save themselves for an unexpected shower.) After this time for battle at the opening-to-mid part, dogfights would start at the latter part. The back hill of mineral only expansion--the easiest expansion to get--is in a risky form as well as island expansions blocked by neutral buildings. While the rest expansions at 1 o'clock and 7 o'clock wouldn't get harassed in a terrain-using way, they are the closest expansions to the opponent at the same time. That is why this map is a little uneasy one from the recently-released maps. In other words, the map would lead more to a dogfight than to a large-scaled. This would be generally connected to the risk in relative balance of the three brood-results of the map. So, what I took care of most was how to get over the risk. #3. When Playing In the Map There are a few to have in mind when playing in this map. First, this map has a big difference in utilizing neutral buildings from other maps with neutral buildings: Pioneer Period, Arkanoid, etc. In case of neutral buildings in Pioneer Period, Arkanoid, most of them worked as defensive fences to block the entrance. Though this could encourage a defensive play a little, most neutral buildings in Hitchhiker would be utilized offensively. Because this map has a simillar-looking building position to what others have but has a necessity to break through the buildings to disturb expansions of the opponent. Second is shadow building possibility. Those who first glanced through this map are likely to mistake as "This map has no possibility for shadow buildings." However, you can see the photo below to find all terrain features can support them. For example, when one tries a shadow Robotics Support Bay at the end of the road starting from one's main base, it is so hard to find that it can have double power. #4 Terran vs. Zerg Right before the season, once I tried to expect how the brood-relative result balance of the map will be. Although neither the game started nor I knew the future, I did it like Terran vs. Zerg 5 to 5 or T better. [link here] Based on the Terran mind, this could be a happy-happy map. Not only it is for just 2, but also it can save room for recovery by blocking the route through the center canyon even after a failure of proxy building strategy. Moreover, Zerg’s chances for an additional expansion get worse when Zerg has done its front mineral only expansion. In this situation, Terran gets better and better as the game goes on. That’s how Midas stuck to this basic theory of the map to defeat Savior. However, many cards are good to go based on the Zerg mind. 3-hatchery build order in fashion ensures a mineral only expansion. It is the same advantage for Zerg in ‘Arcadia’. When, Lurkers, Mutalrisks, and others are utilizing the canyon terrain, they are very annoying to Terran when it doesn’t have that big troops yet. Because, Terran is just supposed to get over larger Zerg troops at the moment. In addition, if Terran doesn’t take the center canyon route but the outer one, Terran has to worry about what if another entrance of the main base breaks open or how to defend the center canyon route if Zerg comes through it: Too many spots to cover. Considering that situation, Zerg can bet its elimination on the opponent’s. As seen in the game of Midas vs. Savior, I suggest what if Savior had captured Midas’ main base with his power from the natural expansion other than being offensive too much. Summary Terran’s Strength: 2-building-blockable center canyon route, uneasy 2nd Nat Zerg’s Strength: easy Mineral Only Expansion, battles around the center canyon, useful pickup-and-drop by slow overlords #5 Zerg vs. Protoss It is uneasy to expect the Z-P relative balance in the map. Generally speaking, the balance depends on which strategy is in fashion then to be pretty much varied because, Z-P games are less than any others but various in the progress. Zerg side would say this map is relatively OK to meet Protoss. Expansions hard to protect can help Zerg’s mobility be more powerful at the latter part. Narrow canyon can support Lurker-containment. Also, Zerg can go with all-in Hydralisks when against the double-Nexus strategy of Protoss. However, Protoss has some keys, too. ‘Not bad’ rating would be possible when Protoss utilizes: Totally-lockable canyon with a few buildings and Photon Cannons, easy 2nd Nat when its double-Nexus is already successful, and helpful topography for its Corsair-Reaver strategy to be against Hydralisk-majored troops taking too long journey. Summary Zerg’s Strength: Expansions hard to protect, useful Lurker-containment, and 3 different entrances. Protoss’s Strength: Narrow canyons, easy Mineral Only Expansions, Corsair-Reaver Strategy. #6 Protoss vs.Terran This is the biggest issue maker—P-T controversy. Protoss fans got set on fire due to the helpless defeat of AnyTime..[gm] at the first P-T game—you might see and feel what it was like if you search the keyword ‘Hitchhiker’ through an active online community. How to keep the relative balance of the map is categorized into two. The former is to keep it even regardless of when measured. The latter is to do it like a seesaw: Let one go up but the opposite go down. The former is very hard. It is uneasy a lot to keep it even at all stages—at the opening part, the middle, and the latter—if the map is not figured that much monotonous. That’s why I usually take the latter. Obviously, the opening part is better for Terran in the T-P game. However, the situation rapidly reverses nice to Protoss while many blocked routes break open and especially when Carriers appear through the middle-latter part of the game. That’s how it explains why Protoss needs a stable management even if it causes some damages through the opening-middle part, but at the same time why Terran should damage the opponent as much as possible, overreaching in attempt to lead the game easy even after Carriers start flying. I suggest Firebathero—showed this theory in the game pretty well. Now, Protoss requires a careful troop management like a proper Shuttle use in order to make a good escape from the risky opening-middle part. There is a brown line crossing the middle of the canyon route on the map—it means: if one passes the line, the one is open to the attack of Dragoons or Lurkers on the hill. When Terran gets the timing and advances, Dragoon on the hill could let Terran’s movement a bit disturbed. So, the time saving activities of Protoss like this would work for Terran to feel its sensory distance to go rush longer and longer than it really is. Moreover, there could be a key available to use the Runaway Protoss strategy that saves as much time as possible with taking more expansions but giving up the main base and the 1st Nat. As I have explained so far, I suggest the games on this map would progress like this: Terran might try to find the answer to the questions this way and that, in the situation a bit favorable for Protoss over all. Summary Protoss’ Strength: Proxy / Shadow Building strategy at the opening part, and Carriers at the latter. Terran’s Strength: Capturing the back-hill positions behind the Mineral Only Expansions, and the narrow canyon areas nice to fight against. #7. Epilogue I guess it is all I can tell from ‘Hitchhiker’ the map as a designer. Players will fill the rest stories. I hope ‘Hitchhiker’ will show many exciting games, which is supposed to take over from the 3rd season in 2006 at least to the middle of the next year at most. Thank you for reading! Sincerely, Forgotten_. 안녕하세요! 임요환의 DVD 입니다. 너무 어렵네요. 많이 부족함을 느꼈습니다. Qck mini 님, SeeY 님, 변성수 님, 분수 님, 치카 님, 탐정 님, Anyname 님, NeVeRDiEDrOnE 님, 루비띠아모 님, 퍼플레인 님, nuzang 님, 마술피리 님 외 많은 분들께 여러가지 표현들을 배웠습니다.. 감사드립니다.
07/01/10 15:32
안녕하세요 homy 입니다.
건의 하신 내용은 좋은 의견인듯 합니다. 원문 글과 번역글을 나란히 게시 하도록 하는 방안을 논의해 보겠습니다. ( 아니면 안에 원본 링크를 설치 하는 정도로 하는것도 괜찮을듯 보입니다. ) 번역 게시판의 관리 운영진을 모집하고 있으니 새로오시는 분과 항즐이님 그리고 다른 운영진분들이 조금씩 힘을 모으면 조각 모으기 이후의 정리된 다듬기 작업이 가능하리라 생각합니다. 많은 참여에 힘이 나네요.
07/01/07 11:59
치카 님// 감사합니다. factor -> feature는 조금 더 생각해보고 필요하다고 생각되면 고치겠습니다 ㄱ-.. 아니면 운영진께서 고려하심이 나을거 같네요. (어차피 제가 번역한거 그대로 갈리는 없으니까요.)
07/01/10 16:17
번역 완료 된 글은 reply로 달려고 합니다.
제목도 영어로 바꿔서요. 그렇게 하면 혼란이 적을 듯 합니다. 그림 내의 영어는.. 좀 처리하기 힘든데-_-;;
07/01/11 14:59
최종본은 오늘 밤에 올리도록 하겠습니다. 원문에 올려져 있던 초벌번역문은 원문 보존을 위해 일단 삭제하구요, 이 글에 대한 번역 코멘트는 여기에서 마감하겠습니다. 번역에 애써주신 모든 분께 감사드립니다^^
07/01/07 12:09
#3 Playing in This Map
There are some things that players should keep in mind when they play in this map. First, this map is different from other maps using “Neutral Structures,” such as Alkanoid or Pioneer Period. Pioneer Period and Alkanoid’s “Neutral Structures” are mostly used as barriers, blocking the entrance. As a result, it encouraged defensive style plays. Hitchhiker’s “Neutral Structures” are somewhat similar arranged, but there are more needs to destroy those structures to attack the opponent’s expansions. The structures will be used as a feature helping offensive styles. Another feature is that the map helps building technology or productive structures can be built without being noticed by the opponent. Some people might think that such tricky plays will not be possible in Hitchhiker, however, if you see the map’s picture, this map’s terrain can be used for such plays. Warping Robotics Facility in a remote area which is connected by one’s base will be not easily patrolled by the opponents, which can give twice the normal damage to them. Also, by warping Pylons or building supplies can allow SCVs or Probes to go over “Neutral Structures,” encouraging Gateways and Factories to be hidden when the opponent does not expect of it.
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